Forum:RSC Wiki transfer transcripts

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In order to maintain maximum transparency about our move over to another Wiki I will be posting all communications here that occur outside of the wiki. If you have any comments or concerns about what you read do feel free to comment.

shastaYesterday at 8:01 PM
Howdy
CookYesterday at 8:01 PM
hey
I got your email. I'm happy to start talking about what you guys want
I'm fine with having the transcripts public, but I also need to make it clear that anything we discuss here is tentative
shastaYesterday at 8:03 PM
I think 2001 was the only person who had anything in the way of requests
CookYesterday at 8:03 PM
I can tell you what I think will very likely happen, but it shouldn't be taken as a stone-cold promise quite yet
shastaYesterday at 8:03 PM
certainly so
CookYesterday at 8:04 PM
I have a meeting with someone from Jagex next week to get an exact idea of what they want from us, both in terms of RSC and the localised (non-English) wiki versions
I can tell you what I think we'll do, but that's subject to change depending on technical stability
what did 2001 want?
shastaYesterday at 8:05 PM
I think his main concern is that on the right column of the migrated wikis, it does not display the "Recent activity" section which makes the people have to watch on the mentioned page (Recent Changes) to watch for vandalizing or improper page changes.
CookYesterday at 8:06 PM
ah, so you're used to just monitoring it from any old mainspace page?
shastaYesterday at 8:07 PM
it helps a lot when editing, more of a realtime check to see what else people are doing
rsc particuarly since people love to replace rsc stuff with rs2/3 data
or to help someone create an article or edit an article
CookYesterday at 8:09 PM
so, here's my initial thought
we don't really...have a right sidebar anymore. the reason it existed on wikia was so they could put sidebar ads there
shastaYesterday at 8:10 PM
as they say in osrs, engine work :stuck_out_tongue:
CookYesterday at 8:10 PM
my strong preference would be to not reintroduce that in general, because it takes away from the content space pretty
considerably it's not that it can't be done, it's that you're losing 25% of the content space for something that a small number of
people (obviously the important people, but still) use
shastaYesterday at 8:11 PM
i have a large monitor so i cant comment on the inconvience[sic]
CookYesterday at 8:11 PM
my suggestion is that we could make a javascript gadget that you could turn on in your preferences that would mostly mimic the behavior of that module
it could even fill that additional space
shastaYesterday at 8:12 PM
toggles are always good
CookYesterday at 8:12 PM
my preference would be to have it off for your average reader though
shastaYesterday at 8:12 PM
off by default is fine
CookYesterday at 8:12 PM
I don't think that would be that hard to make either, it could even have a lot more functionality if you want
e.g. the current recent activity guy only includes mainspace pages
maybe you want more than that. or maybe you don't
shastaYesterday at 8:14 PM
not sure i follow 100%. If a person wants more details then it is not too hard to click the special page
CookYesterday at 8:15 PM
well, the module that currently exists
if someone edits a Template: namespace page, for example
it won't show up
assuming we're talking about the same thing
shastaYesterday at 8:15 PM
i understand now
CookYesterday at 8:15 PM
it wouldn't be the exact same but it would have similar functionality
if you decide that's something you guys really want. personally I just always click back to recentchanges[sic]
shastaYesterday at 8:16 PM
including those changes would be a good idea
it is purely a matter of convience[sic], that we have grown accustomed to
the other wikis get tons of changes a day, so us checking for activity
can become more a chore, if we are a lot less likely to find any changes
CookYesterday at 8:17 PM
yeah
shastaYesterday at 8:21 PM
as far as support from Jagex, what do you think they might offer RSC. Since we are killed content they wont link to us.(edited)
CookYesterday at 8:24 PM
to be honest, I have pretty low expectations for any Jagex support for RSC
I'm not really sure what that would even entail, given the closure
shastaYesterday at 8:25 PM
frankly with how they handled RSC's closure with no so much as a final farewell newspost. If they didn't try and remove the wiki that would be a plus :I
but truely the wiki does not need anything from them. Unless they got one of those RSC servers hanging around :open_mouth:
CookYesterday at 8:26 PM
I'm sure they do, and that's probably the pipe dream in terms of jagex support
is that they just give the code out to someone, and you guys would be the likely choice
but that's obviously...pretty unlikely for now
shastaYesterday at 8:27 PM
We just gotta roadtrip to Andrew's I would be surprised if he did not have a server in his attic
i know i sure would, if i was the creator lol
CookYesterday at 8:27 PM
I get the impression he would love to talk about RSC
we saw him at runefest
shastaYesterday at 8:29 PM
so the domain is jagex's but the servers are an outside contractor? or am i confused
(as far as the new wikis)
CookYesterdayat 8:29 PM
so, we control the entire infrastructure including the servers and the domains
specifically, they're owned by the company "Weird Gloop" that Gaz and I started
however, there's a clause in the contract that says that if the partnership ends, then we remit the domains back to Jagex
because they legally have a claim to any domain with "runescape" in it
shastaYesterday at 8:31 PM
i dont[sic] recall if this was addressed. but say they do end it. would the site be able to fork back to another wiki site
be it wikia or another CookYesterday at 8:32 PM yeah so there's two pieces to that and the answer to both parts is good
if they end the partnership, essentially the only thing that changes (other than the money, which I can cover, and the intangible jagex support) is that we lose the domain
but we still have the servers and everything else
and we'd still own rs.wiki/osrs.wiki etc
we also have a clause in the contract that says jagex can't use the domain "runescape.wiki" for at least 6 months after the termination of the contract
shastaYesterday at 8:33 PM
those domains i take it are currently redirecting to the new wiki?
CookYesterday at 8:33 PM
yeah
well not osrs.wiki yet
shastaYesterday at 8:37 PM
makes sense
the license is the same for the content right?(edited)
CookYesterday at 8:37 PM
mostly
we're changing the license where possible from CC-BY-SA to CC-BY-NC-SA, which adds a clause where it can't be used for commercial purposes
however, this is only enforceable on new articles, since changes to existing pages derive from revisions that are licensed under CC-BY-SA
shastaYesterday at 8:38 PM
of course
sounds very messy tho, for when someone edits only a part of an article
that entire article would then have a mix of lisences
CookYesterday at 8:39 PM
a single article is generally considered to be a complete "work"
so a specific article will either be CC-BY-SA or CC-BY-NC-SA depending on whether it derives from a wikia revision
shastaYesterday at 8:40 PM
sounds a bit suspect, since a person could then just add a period somewhere and call it new?
CookYesterday at 8:40 PM
I don't quite follow
but the truth of the matter is, all of these licenses kinda fucking fail once you start dealing with fluid collaborative works like this
shastaYesterday at 8:41 PM
true, tho i hear Linux might be in for a fall with how they licensed code
CookYesterday at 8:42 PM
copyleft licenses are a dangerous world
there's this huge issue where GFDL is fundamentally incompatible with Creative Commons and everyone is trying to figure out how to fix it
anyway, for most purposes it shouldn't really make a difference whether or not it's NC
but know that there is a bit of a bifurcation there
shastaYesterday at 8:44 PM
yeah, stormy's comment was that he wanted to make sure the license was similar
so he should not have any reservations
CookYesterday at 8:44 PM
okay
shastaYesterday at 8:44 PM
"Bit late here, but I support moving as long as the copyright policy, independence, and creative freedom remain the same.
s. (talk) 18:01, October 13, 2018 (UTC)"
assuming Jagex were to greenlight this process. what timeline from go to code, might we be looking at
CookYesterday at 8:47 PM
so, just to clarify, it's not so much we need Jagex to greenlight it
the confusion with them is more about the localised sites than it is rsc
but they want us to support all of them
shastaYesterday at 8:48 PM
I see
CookYesterday at 8:48 PM
I just want to confirm with them that everything is good to go
as far as the timeline goes, I think we should have a conversation with Me and Gaz, Jayden and Kitty (our tech guys), and maybe you/Luis/2001/Stormy
because this is a bit of a new space for us
both the wikis we've moved already, we're sort of...smack in the middle of those communities
whereas with RSC, yes I'm an administrator, but I haven't really done anything useful on there since 2011 besides sysopping you guys
and I just want to make sure we take every step we can to avoid any sort of adversarial company-vs-community situation shastaYesterday at 8:51 PM
that was my reasoning with holding off on further talks till we as a community had reached agreement CookYesterday at 8:53 PM
there aren't many things I'm super worried about, but RSC is going to need to follow the rules we agreed on with Jagex about moderation
which sounds scary, but really just about all it means is you can't leave slander and libel up on the wiki just things that cover our ass legally
shastaYesterday at 8:54 PM
well i dont think a person would upload an audio file filled with slander. But that is understandable
tbh i would think that was an already exisiting rule
CookYesterday at 8:55 PM
I mean, yeah
all this stuff is common sense
and we should probably have an actual terms of use for the other sites as well
there's nothing in there that's, like, Jagex controlling the content or anything
but we need to be able to step in if somehow one of the local wikis is doing things that exposes us to breach of contract with Jagex
i'll write up a terms of use
shastaYesterday at 8:56 PM
woo the fun of legal stuff
Shasta Sms (talk) 17:14, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

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